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Debate #2: Mark vs. Allan

Topic » Debate #2: Mark vs. Allan

3683 days 15 hours ago
porschefan101
3683 days 15 hours ago
porschefan101
Mark-
 Why is generation 1 the best? I'll break this into two parts: the Pokemom themselves, and the games/anime.
First off, whether you are a Pokemom fan or have hardly even heard of it, you all know one thing. Pikachu. Pikachu has been the face of the franchise from day 1 and even to this day, with over 600 Pokemon, Pikachu remains as the face of pokemon. Pikachu is the rock that keeps gen 1 always in everyone's memory, whether you are old like me and played gen 1 when I was 8 years old, or if you are young and have only experienced the later generations, you know Pikachu and you know about the roots of the franchise. Also, let's face it. The original 151 are the best. They were the first design, they were all unique in their own way, and they all resembled actual creatures whether they be animals, plants, rock formations, etc. That element of pokemon is lost today as creativity is much more important than biology and I know as a kid playing gen 1 these creatures fascinated me. I remember learning about pitcher plants because of victreebell or parasitic fungi because of parasect. These pokemon not only were loads of fun, but they were a learning experience as well.
Now onto the games. This is a hard sell for most people, with updated consoles and graphics it is easy to argue why the new games are better. But that goes for every game in existence. Uniquely to pokemon is its story coupled with the anime. As a kid playing these games alongside watching the anime it brought a whole new life to the game. The events in season 1 of the anime were such a great original story, and now those episodes just get refurbished with new pokemon as the plot is very similar and the games have strayed more and more from the anime. Pokemon yellow was a game made solely to follow the anime story and make you really be enveloped by the core story of the franchise, this is something that does not happen in later gen games. Also, you get a Pikachu as a starter, who still to this day is the face of pokemon.
3683 days 15 hours ago
porschefan101
Allan-
Pokémon is a series loved by many, and most people love all six generations, but there are some people who claim gen 1 is the best, and this is what I have to say to them
There are countless reasons why gen 1 isn’t the best, but for now I’m going to focus on 3, countering the biggest reasons genwunners (people who think the original games are the best) say gen 1 is the best. Those 3 reasons are
-There are too many/unoriginal Pokémon
-They just keep copying gen 1 and no Pokémon game will ever be as good
-And that competitive battling ruined Pokémon

For each of these I will use some of the new Pokémon gens for help

*Challenger one approaches* gen 5 and gen 3 I choose you
These are the 2 generations genwunners throw out when they say the new Pokémon are unoriginal, ill start with gen 3 *gen 1 used took out old Pokémon* *gen 3 retaliated with tried to add originality* gen 3 took a handful of Pokémon from gen 1 and used them, not using most, and trying to mix things up and give people a new world full of innovation, which is what gamers want, innovation, this made genwunners give up on trying gen 3, and said if they cant fit all the Pokémon than there are too many, but that is nostalgic bull, think about it, if there were no new Pokémon after 151, imagine how many people would be bored, if there was no variation in the Pokémon, then we would be stuck super training hitmonchan until everyone gave up on the advancement of the series, if Pokémon stopped after mythical mew, than I would of given up on the series before gen 5 came out, which leads me to… GEN 5 ATTACK *gen 1 used inanimate object Pokémon* *gen 5 used reflect, its super effective* gen 5 threw many genwunners over the edge, between having only new Pokémon and 2 special little guys in it, this made many people hate Pokémon, I'm talking about vanilluxe and garbodor, genwunners claimed that Pokémon is out of ideas, if they are resorting to inanimate objects like ice cream and trash, to this I have to say, bogus, look at some gen 1 Pokémon, oh a rock with arms, they’re running out of ideas, a magnet they’re running out of ideas, a pokeball they’re running out of ideas, a half a dozen eggs they’re running out of ideas, a pile of sludge they’re running out of ideas. These are inanimate objects just like garbodor and vanilluxe, only they’re protected by nostalgia, if these had come out in gen 5 people would be complaining about them more than they did about ice cream and garbage, the “unoriginal” ideas are as original as gen one, in some cases they are an improvement.

Challenger 2 approaches* go gens 2 and 6, These 2 generations are perfect examples of improvement in Pokémon games, in gen 2, 2 types were added, steel, and dark, they were added for very different and worthy reasons steel type was added to give Pokémon some more original designs, and dark was added to counteract the over powered psychic, trying to improve on gen 1, not copy it at all, it also fixed all these glitches

http://www.funnyjunk.com/channel/pokemon/Generations/zzBvGmm/11#11

Gen 6 did a similar thing with fairy type, they used it to stop the over powered dragon type, but they also added many other things, like Pokémon Amie and super training, which were innovations unheard of in gen 1, that were used to add innovation and make the games BETTER THAN GEN 1, and they are, gen one had glitches and Pokémon that were too over powered, these games were innovative than gen 1 and just flat out better

*Challenger 3 approaches* time for my ace, go gen 4
Gen 4 is not the most innovative, not the most original, but it is my first, and my favorite gen, when I played gen 4, I looked nothing up online, and just played through the game, much like genwunners played through gen 1, I couldn’t put it down, and it was this journey that got me hooked on Pokémon, finding out where the 6th gym was after a week of looking, finally defeating Cynthia, capturing azelf
3683 days 15 hours ago
allan526
all I have to say is, the question was original games, not gen 1, yellow isn't the original games so that is invalid, and pokemon hasn't lost its learning standpoint, look at the new starters, greninja made me study ninja behavior to see just how ninja he actually is, and even if you want to learn about the biology of stuff chessnaught has the spikes of a thistle which hurt like hell if you touch them, and pikachu, although the series mascott is not what pokemon is about, he is the main character of the anime, and you know him because of the anime, not the original games, making it invalid of how the first games are better, and is it bad to have differing games and anime, if they were the exact same you would know what happens in one before the other even comes, it is good to have some surprise and not know whats comming, because sometimes that's what you need to have fun
3683 days 14 hours ago
allan526
Also all resembled actual creatures, muk, magnemite, execute, voltorb, yeah, and so a frog ninja isnt a creature but a ball is
3683 days 14 hours ago
allan526
wait... if we only have 1 and 2, and you only have 2 and 3, is this the only one that counts?
3683 days 14 hours ago
porschefan101
no im waiting on the other 2
3683 days 14 hours ago
mminervini219
YESSS I get to debate against my best friend allan!

so first of all, yellow is part of generation I.
every site on the internet will refer to this as correct. here are two examples:
http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Generation_I_Pok%C3%A9mon (right at the top)
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation_I (generation table at the bottom)
so YES, yellow is gen 1 and it is one of the original games for sure.
Also, if you are going to say this isnt an argument about why gen 1 is better/worse than the other gens, then why does your argument also talk about gens and not "original games" as you put it? Its obviously a debate about generation 1 vs the others.

Next, although your argumentt is really poorly structured and very hard to follow I will try to rebut.

To your first point, as far as creatures go, I never said ALL of them are based on biology, but MORE of them than the other generations. my argument is also not about how there should only be 151 pokemon. I agree there should be more than one gen, but the topic of this argument is why gen 1 is better.

To your second point, yes its wonderful that they added new types to balance out the game. And again, Im not saying they shouldnt have, but my argument is that just like the advancement of graphics and minigames, and other fun stuff, that goes with any game. The newer versions work out bugs and advance their technology, this is normal stuff for any game. Pokemon captured everyones interest in gen 1, and was still a whole lot of fun to play even with two less types.

To your third point, in 1998 when i played gen 1, there was nothing on the internet to look up, we just played the goddamn game, I never even went on the computer, so just like your experience in gen 4, this was the game that hooked me on pokemon.
3683 days 14 hours ago
allan526
If I may
Not only that, it is debate week. Three people from each team will participate. Each will go head to head against a member of the other team, taking a side on one of these three statements:
1. Using Pokemon for battle is unethical
2. The original Red/Blue games are inherently the best
3. Competitive battling is more fun than the main story

The original red/blue games are inherently the best, so this is red/blue vs the rest, so by supporting yellow you support me, and yes the interest was caught in gen 1 but it would of been lost if the following games were "just as good" and there are more inanimate object pokemon in gen 1 than in gen 5, 6, or 2, percentage wise, and if just playing the game is what got you interested, than it is true for any game you did that for, my 8 year old brother is doing that with Y and loving it the way I love gen 4 or you love gen 1
3683 days 14 hours ago
mminervini219
well if we are following the rules that closely you only get 1 rebuttal so your point is invalid.
3683 days 13 hours ago
allan526
Then ignore the rest and just read the rules

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