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Final Tribal Council [Guatemala]

Topic » Final Tribal Council..

1619 days 7 hours ago
SurvivorFan37
For James's question:

- You could argue that Ben deserves to beat me because he provided me with the information that I used to make a lot of my decisions. While I've explained why I do think I deserve to ultimately win over Ben, I don't think he played a *bad* game and there's definitely a point to be made that he was more of a dominant strategic force than me during the post-merge phase of the game.

- You could argue that Andy deserves to win because he managed to get to the end without making really any enemies on the jury. Getting to the final 3 without getting a single post-merge vote in a 24 person season is no small accomplishment, and he was well-positioned to never once be a serious target after the merge hit.

I think one thing I did that neither of my opponents did was to actively work to mend fences with people that I voted against -- after Billy was voted out, for example, I actively worked to reassure Lexie/Silver/Patrick, trying to demonstrate that I could still be valuable to their respective games even if they no longer trusted me. This required me to be temperate and diplomatic and to go the extra mile to make sure that people I both genuinely liked and wanted to still work with to a certain extent didn't stay mad at me for the next round (whereas Ben basically told Silver and Patrick to fuck themselves).
1619 days 7 hours ago
amf7410
I also want to say now, that I wrote that speech without reading any of the questions that were posted since I did last night. More specifically, I didn't see Nick's question, and nothing in my speech was in response to him. I will respond to to that question along with the others when I have a chance to get on my computer
1619 days 7 hours ago
bigben1996
@Will

This required me to be temperate and diplomatic and to go the extra mile to make sure that people I both genuinely liked and wanted to still work with to a certain extent didn't stay mad at me for the next round (whereas Ben basically told Silver and Patrick to fuck themselves).

---

I actually did mend fences with Patrick after the Billy vote.  Silver, not as much mainly cause we knew each other's stint and it didn't happen till after he was voted out we actually became square.  I'm just saying this as I didn't write off both of them as it is evident that if I really told Patrick to "fuck themselves" he would've received ninth as opposed to eighth.  Also, Silver would've received tenth if I had completely written him off.

Working on Part 2 for Tris.
1619 days 6 hours ago
bigben1996
CBS Comparison
-------------------

Tashi -  Hali Ford (Survivor Game Changers)

Hali was someone that found themselves in unfortunate circumstances where they weren't necessarily the most well-connected come merge.  While, she wasn't a top-tier player she had her moments of randomness like "I didn't consent" or "offering to strip down showing she didn't have an idol."  Unfortunately, the other side and those who wanted to play the middle felt she wasn't meant for the long term.

James - Jeremy Collins (San Juan Del Sur)

If this was any other game then I'd compare James to someone with a bit more challenge prowess.  However, Jeremy in his original form is a great example of someone who had a lot of potential in this game but trusted the wrong individuals.  Jeremy wanted to secure his allies for the long haul and take out the individuals who would view him as a threat later.

Billy - Marty Piombo (Nicaragua)

In Nicaragua, Marty was a wildcard whether it was himself outing he had an idol or by changing allegiances constantly.  Marty was pretty good at adapting to his surroundings despite the odds being against him as someone on the bottom rung of any alliance.  If Marty actually could've gotten some traction in the game he had the potential to go deep but the later was an early merge boot.

Tris - Debbie Wanner (Kaoh Rong)

I personally enjoyed my time on the island with Tris.  However, from a gameplay perspective it was extremely hard to read what would be his next move in the game.  Tris brought spunk to the game that this gamebotish season needed.

Nick - Hayden Moss (Blood vs. Water)

I know the placements don't exactly matchup  here.  However, Hayden found himself on the outs during the premerge after Caleb Bankston decided to flip.  However, he slowly managed to improve his position come a swap and began to integrate himself into middle of a very strong alliance.  The one flaw of Hayden was just not being able to find himself on the right side of the numbers during the most pivotal point of the game.  Otherwise, he had a pretty good shot of winning.

Patrick - LJ McKanas (Cagayan)

I think the way that I played by flipping was similar to Tony and that instance Patrick would be LJ.  A level-headed individual that Tony was loyal to for an extent but understood that he was smart enough that he could create his own army in the future.  LJ similar to Reyonld Topher (Caramoan) are the one-time male players who had potential to become future winners if the ball bounced the other way.

Silver - Monica Padilla (Samoa)

Now, I'm not calling myself Russell Hantz by saying this.  However, Monica was someone who was able to suss out someone who had been actively driving strategy on their season.  Russell knew the threat Monica could bring to him so he cut him right before she had the chance to start rallying the troops.

Josh - Bret La Belle (Millenials vs. Gen X)

Bret found himself on the wrong side of the vote during the home stretch of the game.  He knew that he wasn't necessarily the priority target but made sure he made proper connections with Sunday Burquest and Adam Klein.  I think similarly to me Hannah Shapiro got "cold feet" and instead of voting out an obvious threat they went for him as someone they thought for moment Bret wasn't going to take em to the end.  I think the only difference is that I don't believe I'm in an unwinnable situation right now.

Lexie - Natalie Bolton (Melanesia - FvF)

Natalie's social game was on point after having been outnumbered by the fans.  While, Lexie was never necessarily in the majority her social presence speaks loudly when the "Black Widow Brigade" decided to get rid of individuals like Ozzy, Erik, Jason, Lexie, and others before herself.  Alas, if Natalie had made the end she would've won the respect of her fellow peers being the last fan standing and that's fitting as Lexie was the only new player left standing here.

Absolita - Kathy Vavrick-O'Brien (Marquesas)

I wanted to throwback to unforgotten "fallen hero" which Survivor criminally underrates.  Kathy was supposedly the easy out from the beginning but continued each day to get traction to the point she found herself in a stable alliance.  The only downside to this is she knew she could easily be a threat come the later stages as she was playing all angles.  A relatively outspoken individual fits nicely here.
1619 days 6 hours ago
Pokepat
Well, well, well... The final three. Congratulations on accomplishing this huge goal of making it to FTC in the last season of M&N’s survivor.

Andy, we rarely talked and frankly, all I think you did was outlast. I don’t think I can reward you my jury vote for this game.

Will, you played exactly the game that I wanted to play but fell short on. I knew that you were going to be a dominant force in this game the moment I stepped onto the Yaxha mat. While I do believe you played an impeccable game, it wasn’t perfect and my vote is not locked.

Ben, your game was also a very dominant one and I do respect the fire that you sparked this season. However, there were some questionable parts of your gameplay that hold me back from wanting to vote you. However, you still have a chance.

The both of you were nearly identical with your strategical games, and I don’t focus on physical that much. For me, this is coming down to your social games. I want you to pinpoint three of the biggest connections that got you to this day and how you managed that connection.

Good luck!
1619 days 6 hours ago
SurvivorFan37
@Patrick I'd say the three most important connections I made this season (aside from Ben, obviously) were:

Lexie -- Lexie was actually the very first person to message me this game and someone I trusted implicitly from the getgo. As you know went on call in the Yaxha chat a couple times and talked about non-game related things, and she was someone who I found was easy to get along and work with in the game. For me, Lexie was an important sounding board for ideas and the relationship I built with her was indispensable in being able to understand where I stood within the cast as a whole and what to do next regarding votes, alliances, and the like. While I knew she would have likely been a major threat to win, I knew she would have my back and thus wanted her in the game for as long as possible (for both strategic and personal/friendship reasons). I voted her out at the final 5 as Ben and Lexie both expected me to choose between the two of them, and as I had only 15 minutes to do so I went with my gut and kept the person whom I've known on tengaged for the longest and simultaneously believed I had the better chance of beating.

Absol -- My relationship with Absol was...complicated to say the least this season, but I still believe that the conversations I had with him were some of the most important in terms of deciding what to do next for votes and the like. By initially convincing him that I was on the bottom of the original Yaxha alliance, I was able to sway the target off of myself for the first couple merge votes, staying out of the limelight even after I won the first 2 individual immunities. In turn, I also swayed the target for our side off of him right up until the Final 6 or so, believing him to be someone who wasn't immediately targeting me from the other for most of the game. While it's true that neither of us fully trusted each other (and Absol was quick to call me out on my bullshit more than once), I think my relationship and pre-existing connection with him helped make me less of a target for much of the post-merge game, putting me in a much better position than other people in my alliance to get to the end.

Josh - Josh might seem like a bit of a wildcard answer because we definitely didn't talk to each other as much as the two other people on this list, but he was somebody that I knew was decently trustworthy from previous games and could try and work with in this one. While I think both of us knew we weren't taking each other to the end, we did strategize about several of the post-merge boots (the Billy vote comes to mind) and I'd say my connection with Josh was pretty instrumental in galvanizing support for some of the votes I made later in the game (Silver, for example). I voted him off at the final 6 because I'd run out of other options to boot and I knew he'd be looking to cut me before the end, but I'd say my interactions/relationship with Josh were absolutely critical in understanding where the votes were going and how to sway them onto the target I wanted to go home.
1619 days 5 hours ago
amf7410
@Absol

You were one of the people I talked to most this game. I had a lot of fun talking to you, and there was never a dull conversation. There were some laughs shared between us, at least on my end. I think that you are genuine, but you also have a lot of spunk and flare, and you are never afraid to back down and stand up for what you believe in, and I respect that.

I also respect you as a player. You put yourself out there even when it may not have been to your benefit, and you were loyal. From my perspective, you were definitely more of a leader in this game, but you made yourself a bit too big of a target, and that's pretty much what your downfall was. I think that, had maybe a one or two things gone a little bit differently, you would be sitting here right now.
1619 days 5 hours ago
bigben1996
@Nick

Ben - We haven't played games together that much in both our times on Tengaged, but every time we do, you act like you're my friend and that you have my back, and then you have 100% of the time cut me early at the merge. Tell me why I should overlook the fact that you never had intentions of working long-term with me, and why I shouldn't overlook your game and vote for someone else out of spite?

----

I want to address this but I did have intentions of potentially working with you long-term.  Now, was it a guaranteed that I was going to do it?  No, I can't honestly say that my intentions with you going to the end were going to be prioritized over the relationships that I made the first day with Lexie and Will.  In that sense, I gave "false hope" and that was something that I shouldn't have done on my end.  I could give the explanation of "Yes, I got caught up in the game or that I chose one side over the other."  No, I said things that I shouldn't have said and if it costs me your vote tonight then that is something that I have to take accountability for at the end of the day.

Whether you believe me or not, my intentions entering the merge went back and forth about everyday.  Some days, I felt that I should continue my game with you and Absol as I felt genuinely closer to y'all while others revolved me wanting to stay with the people that I was with from the beginning in Lexie and Will despite having distrust with numerous people.  There were things that bothered me on both sides from a gamepoint perspective. I knew by the way that I strategically positioned myself in the center of each vote that I'd have to make hard decisions to shorten the individuals on each side as it got to a point where I was close with everyone.  Ultimately, I voted you due to Silver being immune and for the fact that I had to choose between you and Josh both of you I felt tight with.  I picked Josh for the long-term of my own game due to the fact I felt he'd be a better bet to go after Absol in the future.

Looking back, I did cut you way too early on personal and strategic level.

----

Why shouldn't my game be overlooked out of spite?

I believe that you shouldn't overlook my game due to the fact that I did play balls to walls more than my other finalists.  Sure, I believe each in their own right deserves to here but I think each of them believes that by me holding the knife that I should be easily be ignored tonight.  I don't think that should be the case as this is a "Last Chances" season where I think you should reward the person who fits your jury voting criteria.  I think on a strategic level that I've played the best as every round someone needed my vote for a move to happen and ensured that I always had the numbers in the event someone wanted to flip the script on me.  I'm not trying to diminish the others two games but I took a less passive approach to this season and really went out of my way to make moves whether smart or controversial.

Yes, I hurt several individuals by the way that I flipped (you included) on them during the game and how I handled those social situations.  But, I think it's a tall task for someone to play the middle the entire game and not get voted out because of it.  There's always "Hey let's get that rat out and move forward."  No, I held my own as a player and nobody attempted to truly come after with the exception of Silver trying to build a coalition.  Not to mention, I have not had safety once throughout this game and everyone had the opportunity to vote me out which didn't end up happening and felt I was in the most final three scenarios out of anyone.
1619 days 5 hours ago
Absol
ok thank you all for answering my question now that my ego is properly stroked i can make a clear and rational decision to vote for the winner <3

best of luck to all 3 of you
1619 days 4 hours ago
sergeant
First of all I want to say congratulations to all three of you! You did something 21 other players wanted to do. With your last chance you made it all the way to the finale. I know I definitely am disappointed I couldn't get myself to the end.

I have some questions.

I am going to start with Ben.

I held our relationship in a really high regard. Other than Absol, I was the most honest with you about my intentions and how I wanted to play. I felt that you were the same way too.

My question is this. After many times telling you I wanted to take you to the end, and telling you that I would have had a hard time cutting Absol. Did you feel like I wasn't going to take you? What was your thought process behind the decision?

Next I would like to go to Will.

I feel like through your speech and answers, this sense of yes you were playing to win. But at the same time that you were just trying to justify your flaws by saying you wanted to be less bad than Ben. You didn't talk to people because you didn't want to lie. Is that the truth or just an excuse?? Tell me why I am wrong?

And finally Andy.

I think I got to see a lot more of your game than most, we played a lot of this game together. And despite the fact that I was targeting you pre-merge because I knew what kind of player you can be. You stuck with Absol and I and the others. So what I want is for you to just talk about some of the things you feel like you did contribute to this game. Cause I feel like you did more than people think. Why are they overlooking you?

Again, I want to say congrats and I think all three of you are deserving on your spots in the final 3.
1619 days 4 hours ago
amf7410
@Tris
I am combining both of your questions into one post because I think the explanations of CBS players also speak to their games.
MOST DESERVING

Absolita- Kelley Wentworth (Cambodia)
I wouldn’t say Absolita was an underdog necessarily, but rather was a driving force, being a go-getter with votes, and in the good graces of most people. Not always in the power position, but able to flip votes to her side when on the bottom.

Lexie- Holly Hoffman (Nicaragua)
Lexie was someone I was very concerned about socially. She wasn’t necessarily the best in challenges, but could hold her own. However, that didn’t matter in the long run because she had strong connections to other players. She was someone that was genuine, reaching out to people, but that also made her a huge jury threat.

James- Kelly Sharbaugh (Samoa)
James was idoled out of the game in a strong position. He had the social capability, but people caught on to that and decided he was the right target of an idol play. A lot of potential to make a deep run at the game, only to find it cut short through no fault of his own, really.

Nick- John Hennigan (David vs. Goliath)
Someone who was pegged as an early-merge threat to win the game, and therefore was targeted. Nick wasn’t the victim of an idol play, but rather had a position in a strong group, with social connections on the outside.

Josh- Courtney Marit (Panama)
Both were victims of 3-2-1 vote splits, and both were players that people wanted to take to the end because they were perceived easy beats. I don’t think that Josh was nearly as abrasive as Courtney was, nor do I think he is a poser, but I think Courtney could’ve pulled out a win if she went to the end against the right person, and I feel the same is true of Josh. Both were slept on pretty heavily.

Tris- Shirin Oskooi (Worlds Apart)
Kind of a WTF character, it just felt Shirin could never gain any real traction in the game. Not really a big threat to win overall, but rather someone who just fell on the wrong side of the numbers at the wrong time. But still very fun to watch.

Billy- Reynold Toepfer (Caramoan)
Part of a small, strong group, but seemingly overshadowed by the others. Similarly to Reynold, his small group wasn’t enough to protect him from the mass of numbers that opposed him.

Silver- Jonny Fairplay (Pearl Islands)
Seemingly more of a villain, Silver was not afraid to get involved in some drama. Outspoken, for better or for worse, and played hard strategically. Might win or might not, depending on how FTC goes and who the opponent(s) is (are).

Patrick- Ben Driebergen (Heroes vs. Healers. vs. Hustlers)
Obviously there is a glaring difference here, that being the idol run that got Ben to the end of the game. However, I think what happened to Patrick is exactly what would have happened to Ben had he not the idols. Mid-merge threat whose alliance flips because they’ve become too much of a risk to take further in the game.

Tashi- Jenna Bowman (Ghost Island)
Someone who was more in it for the experience rather than to play. She had very strong bonds with the people close to her, but for everyone else, seemed to be an easy target in the early merge.

LEAST DESERVING
1619 days 4 hours ago
Bvance1212
Hey guys! Congrats on making it here....
I have 3 questions as the annoying 3rd place juror who clearly didn't know anything about the game the later it got into it.

1. Why shouldn't I vote for ben when he was the only person to (in andys case) reach out and (in wills case) have more than one convo that lasted about 3.5 minutes?

2. Why shouldn't I vote for andy when he ranked me the highest on his Most Deserving scale?

3. Why shouldn't I vote for will when he was the only one to have a social game that seemed to be non toxic *Looking at you ben*
1619 days 4 hours ago
amf7410
@Nick

So, I never reached out for a few reasons. 1) I already had people I was working closely with in the alliance (Absol, James, Josh toward the middle/end), and Ben outside the alliance. 2) If I start talking to you, people might start to see me as more of a social threat, and I didn't want to become a target due to that. 3) I have played and worked with you in the past, so I felt that I could trust you within our group despite not having talked to you privately.

Now, as to why you should vote for me. I think that I still played decently well given the cards I had. Like I said, I was inactive in the merge and I fully admit that, but I had to continue to play that up. Given that I was targeted several times in the pre-merge, including by you, I survived, and yet I was still unwaveringly loyal because I knew that was my best path to the end. If I got angry and flipped to spite all of the people that voted me out when I played the idol, I wouldn't be here because I had no relationships with them so they wouldn't have kept me around. I was able to remain off the radar for the entire merge (Josh and I were both voted least likely to win, but I wasn't a target and he was.), while making the smart move for my own game. And finally, I am the last player left from the alliance that we had, so if you were to vote for me, there's a chance that our alliance could still pull out a win for this game.
1619 days 4 hours ago
amf7410
@James

Will deserves to win because, of the three of us, he was the best social player. He had made connections and was willing to break them when he needed to because he knew that he would always have a backup plan.

Ben deserves to win because he was the puppetmaster of sorts. He knew what he wanted, went after it, and convinced other people to do it. If I'm not mistaken, he was a part of every single merge vote, or if not he was close to it. He was always in the know, and that's no easy task.

As for me, I can say that I played a clean game, and I don't think either of the other finalists can say the same. For me, I always put more emphasis on smart moves rather than big moves, and in this particular instance, playing loyally was my smart move. I can play aggressively, as you know, but I don't feel it would have benefited me to do so. Sometimes, factors outside the game (i.e. my Facebook ORG, my sister having a baby a few days ago, etc.) influence how you have to play the game, and I think I played as well as I could given the circumstances.
1619 days 4 hours ago
amf7410
I'm going to take a break for a little bit but I will get back to answering questions later this afternoon

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