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We need to talk…

Topic » We need to talk…

51 days 21 hours ago
Hi… so… we need to talk.

Well. The question is pretty easy.

The judges and I are having a hard time judging your looks based on this new trend of just photoshopping your face on top on an already existing complete look. Let me explain better but first things first.

1) this isn’t for shaming anyone. Literally the judges and I are just having a hard time and we want to hear from you as well.

2) just know that anything you say won’t be used against you. We are not looking for you to agree with us if you don’t. But please let’s make this polite and respectful.

3) we are not even asking you to change and the judgement will go on as usual for now but we need to be on the same page because this phenomenon is blowing up big time.


Here is my dilemma.

I am not interested in you just “looking good”. Sure… I want you to either be already there or try and be the guide that pushes you there (which… you may not know, but have worked for many of you already).

So… I know that not all of us are edit queens and using someone else’s looks the equivalent of real RPDR queens using designer clothes. But my main issue is… who are you behind that? Is your job done once you found a look that’s already completely finished and you just stamp your face on it? How can I judge YOUR vision in this?

For a better understanding. I think that a piece of clothing, a wig, an accessory, can change a whole look. It all depends on our own vision. Even the pick of a different body size can change a lot (and I know something about that). But… what if you take away all of it and just rely on someone else’s job. What can we as judges do about it? IMPORTANT : How can we help you improve when there’s nothing we can tell you to change the look of not telling you “just find another concept art drawing”?

Let me give you some examples.

In season 9, we had this AMAZING moment in which two queens presented the exact same dress on the same runway and we had a hard time realizing it because they were styled so different that it made the two completely different looks.

This is the product of two different creative visions. What do the se vision imply?
- concept
- references
- body
- face
- wig
- accessories
- mug
- shops

All these factors worked together to give us two different experiences starting from the same concept.

So… if anything know that we are looking for your own vision, creativity and INDIVIDUALITY.

I feel like you’re all under the false impression that I am asking you not to be IMVU queens and HAVE TO be edit queens. But that’s not it. I want you to be able to express YOUR OWN personal creative vision TO THE BEST. Sure… IMVU could be restrictive but I feel this new trend is even more restrictive because it leaves you all no chances of actually developing the “vision of ensamble” that we are looking for. Plus, giving you no space to actually follow the instructions I give you because well… the look is already done as it is.

In conclusion.

I repeat : this is not to discharge or make less of anyone’s job.

But please take some time to think about this and let us know your thoughts on that.

I hope really that the message has come across. But to make sure one last time : this is  just to create this discussion because maybe it is just us old ladies that aren’t used to innovation and “things were better in our own times”, I am ready for it, but we really need feedbacks.
51 days 21 hours ago
I’ve been known to call this out on seasons in past. And as someone who does edit all my looks, it is very discouraging that some queens are judged to the same degree who can look at a selection of looks by another artist and submit as their own.

I’m not necessarily talking plagiarism, but it makes me feel cheated of my effort and skills and makes me wonder what we’re here to be judged on.

Are we being judged on our creativity and talent? Or are we being judged on curating the most interesting google image?
51 days 20 hours ago
I definitely feel it was necessary to be brought up. In Enobaria’s race I did this once and just put a head on a look and Weet had a few words to say to me about it LMAOOO! But I’ve learnt from that (I hope) and I do feel like it’s kind of a cheat way of looking amazing. I feel like some edits have to be made MORE than just one thing you’re changing. You can do so many things with a look you find off Google to make it feel like you’re own and I feel like it definitely needed to be said as it’s becoming a reoccurring trend. I totally understand Weet and others frustration with this type of thing.
51 days 20 hours ago
Ok sooo um I mostly do that and I felt like it worked and I never thought it was cheating or plagiarism. Im still trying to learn how to edit things better of course but it’s taking some time.
51 days 19 hours ago
Aja, why not practice your skills in a race? That’s how a lot of edit queens practiced their work.
51 days 19 hours ago
Ngl it just feels like I'm wasting time, because I know I'm not that good at editing and I will never make something that is even close to being as beautiful as most of your looks that you just put a face on.

I'm not saying that everyone should now start editing, but it's sad that now imvu queens do more work than the rest.
51 days 19 hours ago
Aja, why not practice your skills in a race? That’s how a lot of edit queens practiced their work.

thats how i started + you can always ask judges or other editing queens for advices. Enobaria and Talian helped me a lot tbh
51 days 19 hours ago
I originally deleted my post as I wanted to withdraw from the conversation as I don't really know the answer but I have since been asked what my comment was so here is roughly what I said.

I don't see any problem with people editing images. Even just editing makeup or something as they are showing ownership of part of the image.

I think it is more of a grey area when images are copied and posted over from a source with no editing or ownership. Even then I believe that is how the contestant has chosen to represent themselves.
51 days 18 hours ago
That’s true, I’ve never really asked. I always could…don’t worry tho it’s gonna change.
51 days 11 hours ago
Also although I do photoshop that way I do use my own accessories.
50 days 14 hours ago
Hi all! Well, I do wanna talk about this because, as Rubes mentioned before, it's something that already happened on my race.

When Rubes did it back in EDR S1, I didn't feel she was doing it as an easy way out. She had a track of good looks and it was just one episode where she tried something different. It wasn't well recieved and I totally got it and respected everyone's opinions.

I know it can be frustrating to feel you don't have as much tools as someone that does edition has, but none of us started at the exact same point we are now. I started with a Sims base and with Custom Content and I went to edition when I felt that it wasn't enough. And it was a loooong path since then. I didn't become magically an edition master, it took me years and lots of work, dedication and patience. Putting your face on a picture can take you, what? 5-10 minutes. Even IMVU queens spend lots of time looking for the perfect look in such limited platform. I can spend from 6 hours to 2 or 3 days on a single look. So doing edition isn't free.

And I now for a fact that all the edition queens started as collage queens, cutting something from here and there and working on something new from scratch. So it was like a desing challenge every week.

If I have to speak for myself, I value a person who makes a look with poor or low execution but with clear vision much more than someone who puts their face in a spectacular illustration. Because I can see that: Vision, concept and personal aesthetic.

Putting your face onto some else's illustration could seem kinda lazy. Specially cause it's hard to see your own vision and your own aestethic through someone else's work. The only way to masterfully do it, is following one line of estethic that we can follow on a single Drag Persona, and not just a bunch random looks.

I believe that Races have a lot to do with your own path and development, being able to see progress, growth and evolution is key to understanding the storyline of a Drag Persona.

So I trully encourage all of you to work on your own tools to be able to express YOUR art. You don't need to be perfect, you need to be the best version of yourselves that you can be.

We are not judging your actions or discrediting your work. It is just advice, from people who have already been through the same thing. We feel frustrated when we see these trends that detract from the individual value of artistic and creative work.

As always, y'all know that we're available to help you and give you advice and recommendations whenever you may need it. You can count on us, we are a community, don't forget that ♥
49 days 5 hours ago
Okay I dont know why I didnt say this the day this thread was posted (probably cause of my vaccine lmfao) but just wanted to add one last thing to this convo because I feel like it needs to be said!

I genuinely dont think that queens like me that usually find a look and photoshop over it our body, are just finding the first look we see and going with it. At least myself personally ill take hours on end looking for THE perfect gown that not only fits the category but I also see and say this is something Tamar would totally wear.

As well the editing isnt always completely easy, we're not just pasting our faces onto the dress and calling it a day, we take our time to make it perfect so we fully embody ourselves into the look with our own skin, makeup and what not.

I once started as an IMVU queen but I felt like I wasnt able to express myself with the clothing options provided, thus I taught myself, with the help of other queens, how to properly edit over gorgeous gowns that I feel represent how I'd convey a runway so it doesnt look like I just stole a look and said yea this works.

I just dont want certain people to feel like their work is being discredited or that its an easy way out because we work hard to show off those polished looks, and honestly if I knew how to draw I'd totally make my own looks, but I cant do that! so i resort to the second best thing which is finding my vision in other peoples drawings, clothings, etc.

I definitely agree that we could for sure add certain things to make it even more unique,  but sometimes that can take away from the fantasy already being presented. 

Lets all just keep doing what we're good at with runways and enjoy this! I just do this for fun and because I enjoy looking at gowns on pinterest, so I'll keep doing as I do!

I love u all kisses from ur sexy latina neighbour
49 days 5 hours ago
Megan, this is disgusting
47 days 9 hours ago
"we work hard to show off those polished looks"
i call bullshit on that but ok
47 days 9 hours ago
You can use other people's work, but for the love of GOD, credit them. That's all I ask
46 days 18 hours ago
Do what you gotta do to win

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✨ Talian’s Drag Race •  All Stars 3

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