I don't understand how tf that EIGHTEEN school shootings in 45 days into 2018.
Has it occurred to anyone that there is no need for Assault Rifles and Machine Guns? Has it occurred to anyone that maybe if shooters had pistols or revolvers or even shotguns that way less people would die? Has it occurred to anyone that maybe gun control is a good idea?
CAN WE ALL UNDERSTAND that the 2nd amendment actually guarantees people the right to bear arms when a militia is protecting the country.
IT DOES NOT SAY that we can all buy machine guns.
A machine gun is made to KILL people at a mass. It can not be used to hunt because you would destroy anything you hunted.
Personally, I don't think that all guns should go away. If you want to "hunt" or "protect" yourself that is okay, but there is no one who should own and automatic.
Overall, I do not expect conservatives to throw away guns, but in light of all the school shootings recently, not to mention the Las Vegas shooting. Thank you for reading.
EDIT: Did yall know that Australia bought back all guns from their citizens in 2008 or 2009 and they haven't had a school shooting nor a major shooting since.
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Has anyone considered that if any of those schools had armed teachers that lives would be saved. You dont walk into a gun fight with a smile and banana.
Thank you all for the hate. When someone breaks into your home and your killed because you have no rights to fight them off, ill bring a gun shaped cake to your grave with told you so written on it in blood red
Can we just imagine what Thomas Jefferson would think if people were using the 2nd amendment to save guns when there have been EIGHTEEN school shootings this year.
No im not paranoid it happens and when it does Im not going down like a pussy. I would rather die trying then die with out trying to do damn thing to save my family. People have guns. Legal or not.
Btw im not spreading hat. Im not the one calling names. Im stating my opinion based on my right. If they take that then whats going to be the next right they take? The thing about America is freedom. Owning a gun is a freedom.
@hellomynameis743 Your correct. That is the our right. To bear arms. To own guns to protect our selves from foreign and domestic threats. I am not demanding those that do not want that right or choose to exercise it to do so. i am saying that I dont want it taken from me.
heatherlum saying you will bring a gun shaped cake with blood red icing to someones funeral saying i told you so to a victim of gun violence is spreading hate no matter how you tried to paint it that comment was sickening and immature
koolness234 its the truth. If someone breaks in to your home with a gun and you have nothing hat chance do you have? If our rights are taken then how are we supposed to protect our homes. Its not hate. its the truth of what is going to happen if our right to bear arms is taken. Its the brutal truth. You may not like it but its going to happen.
@heaterlum I never made an arguments against having guns for self defense no matter the reality of the situation
saying you will tkae a cake to a funeral of someone who died due to gun violence with red icing to mimic blood and said i told you so is spreading hate and is sickening and then you try to claim you arnt spreading hate. If you want to argue that you have a right to bear arms which you do and I never said you didnt you can do it without saying asinine degrading and insulting comments. Saying stuff like that in a wake of a school shooting when parents lost their kids lives and the only comment you can muster up is I told you so should have had guns is spiteful. You have every right to own a gun adn you have every right to argue for the use of legal firearms i American. You just do not have to use degrading xomments to do so argue with tact not disgusting shock factor
heatherlum Do you know why that right was put into the Constitution? No? Okay time for a quick history listen
Let's look back at the American Revolution. The American colonies didn't have a standing army, so who fought in the war? Militias made up of non-trained civilians who needed NON-AUTOMATIC guns to defend themselves.
Gurl, it is 2018. The United States has the largest army in the world, we spend more on our military than the next highest 18 countries combined, and they are all of our allies. A civilian is gonna be no help in defending against foreign threats.
Coming from a school teacher, you must be crazy to think putting a gun in a classroom is a good idea. I'll tell you this much, you put a gun in my classroom or on campus, and I will NEVER fail another student again.
No one is saying take guns away, that's not the answer. We are talking about SENSIBLE GUN LAWS. So please stop being so nasty, and just listen, then respond maturely.
turney1805 exactly I never said we had to take guns away just more sensible gun laws you also pointed out her arguments for the 2nd amendment wa a faulty one but regardless of how it was conceived she still has a legal right to own a firearm and I am not saying she should have it taken away. I am just saying maybe she should show a lot more tact to victims of gun violence saying I told you so with a gun shaped blood red cake is spiteful and hateful, and was not even addressing the point at hand
turney1805 the problem is that its a slippery slope. And yes i there are people who are saying take away guns
Coming from a parent I fear that a school shooting to happen at my son school. I would feel safer if his school had an armed guard. Also no need to teach me. Im aware why we have that right.
heatherlum You're talking to a school teacher, I get the fear. For me, if it happens at the school I work at, I know Im gonna have to do what I can to save my kids even if that means risking myself.
I know opening the door to possibility of bad things happening from gun restriction seems overwhelming, but I truly believe that more good than harm will come of it with some sensible restrictions. People just have to be willing to try.
koolness234 im an asshole. i will admit it. Its the point. Im sick of my rights being under fire. Im sick of having to defend my rights. Not only my rights as a gun owner but my rights in other areas as well. I am not forcing my rights on others I am not demanding that people exercise there rights what i am saying is that if our second amendment rights are taken that people will still have guns. Making them illegal will not stop them from being had and when there needed for self protection and people dont have them there going to be wishing they were not so gung ho to get rid of the right.
And you right that comment was wrong. I can admit my mistake. I am just sick and tired of always be under attack.
turney1805 I bet that if one school was protected by armed guards and another school was not protected and it was well known what school was what that the school not protected is going be targeted first. Thats my point. i pray that it never comes down to that but if it does i want my child that the school with the armed guard. As for giving it a try i dont see you so willing to give my side a try. It takes two sides to compromise. Not just one demanding things.
heatherlum There you go putting words into my mouth again never once said I want your gun owner right stripped away. I said dont accuse others of spreading hate and then spread hate stop pushing this agenda that anyone who disagrees with you wants your gun rights taken away. I do not know where you conceived that attack. All I am saying is dont argue your point of view with hatred and disgusting comments making fun of those who have died of gun violence. That was all I was pointing out but since continously fail to see that point and try to keep labeling me as someone who wants to take gun right away from you this conversation is done. Compromise happen Mrs. HEATHERLUM when two people decide to talk about something rationally. All you have done is put words into my mouth and essentially told people who died of gun violence TOLD YOU SO. Why dont you take a trip down to Sandy Hook and all the people who lost kids and say I told you so and see how that furthers your agenda. I just pointed out if you want to argue for gun rights you have every right just dont do it with hateful spiteful degrading and asinine comments that dont further the debate at all
heatherlum I understand your point and if you want to own a gun then go do so honey I am not trying to take that away from you. I am just saying dont say hurtful spiteful comments. Also it be a lot more effective to have metal detectors at every entrance or armed guards at every school then giving teachers guns.
koolness234 I would never do that. They are innocent. I am not saying that they got what they deserved. I would personally have love to beat the shit of anyone that hurts a child. I am saying that had there been something better to protect them maybe they would not have died. This has to be some sort of learning out of these shooting. The shootings are happening at places where there is not shit for security. Its really sad. The kids and teachers are paying the price.
heatherlum then dont make comments like this "when someone breaks into your home and your killed because you have no rights to fight them off, ill bring a gun shaped cake to your grave with told you so written on it in blood red"
Most of the 18 school shootings aren't really what comes into mind when you hear the words 'school shooting'
Also let me clarify whether or not buying a fully automatic/machine gun is possible. Technically: yes. Actually: It's so incredibly difficult and expensive that for the vast majority of people it's essentially impossible.
But more importantly, a huge issue I have with the whole gun control debate is how few people look at any solutions that would actually stop the shootings we are having. Talking about banning fully automatic and machine guns is pointless when talking about how we could've stopped the recent school shooting. Because the gun used WASN'T a fully automatic/machine gun. It was a semi-automatic. Big difference. Would banning semi-automatics have stopped the shooting or at least saved some lives? Certainly possible. If he was determined enough to use a semi-auto he could've still gotten his hands on one illegally. But making it harder certainly could've helped.
What about arming teachers? That could've helped too. However, that could also lead to WAY more problems if the teachers aren't responsible and well-educated on guns and gun safety.
The reality is that this is a very complex topic that has no simple answer. And just because something worked somewhere else, doesn't mean it would work here. Because the issue at hand is very different. The culture is different, the amount of guns is different, etc.
One last point;
"EDIT: Did yall know that Australia bought back all guns from their citizens in 2008 or 2009 and they haven't had a school shooting nor a major shooting since."
You're correct to say that gun deaths have gone down in Austrailia since the ban. However, the homicide rate has stayed essentially the same since then just going down a little bit. Which we could've expected to happen regardless of the gun ban.
vegasboy94
I don't think it's all the simple as less guns = more shootings or more guns = more shootings. In some cases you would find a shooting could have been avoided by someone else nearby having a gun and stopping the shooter. In other cases, someone not having 'easy' access to a gun would stop a shooting.
It's not something you can boil down to an easy equation. It's far too complex for that.
We just need more protection and a better system to protect these kind of situation's from happening. Banning guns as a whole solves nothing, especially in a country where owning guns is so embraced, it's stupid that people even talk about this. Also the funny thing about this, is that nobody even really gives a crap about these kind of situations until the media makes it a big deal and than we all forget about it. You don't blame the guns, you should be blaming the FBI and Police Department for not stepping up when that's their fucking job. Many warnings were given that this kid was mentally unstable and yet nothing happened. So stop making this whole thing about gun control and show a little respect to the victims instead of making this a thing to push your "gun control" agenda. You never gave a fuck before this, so why do you suddenly give a fuck now?
AdamLovesEverything how dare you say I don't care for the victims. But action needs to happen. I feel for the families and I can't imagine what they are going through but why not make their legacy that we changed something. I think that if you want to blame the FBI on this one fine but let's talk about Vegas. Vegas was not on the FBI that was on the 42 guns that the killer owned.
How the FUCK can you say that heatherlum ... give TEACHERS guns? Are you fucking insane?
As somebody who WANTS to become a teacher and teach kids, I would NEVER and I MEAN NEVER want to hold a fucking gun in my hands and be trained how to use one. THAT IS NOT SOMETHING I DONT THINK ANY teacher wants to do.
If you think having a machine gun is ok YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. KIDS ARE DYING and you think that MORE guns should be held in classes? You have issues girl.
EDIT: Did yall know that Australia bought back all guns from their citizens in 2008 or 2009 and they haven't had a school shooting nor a major shooting since.
"EDIT: Did yall know that Australia bought back all guns from their citizens in 2008 or 2009 and they haven't had a school shooting nor a major shooting since."
You're correct to say that gun deaths have gone down in Australia since the ban. However, the homicide rate has stayed essentially the same since then just going down a little bit. Which we could've expected to happen regardless of the gun ban.
robbyjak How is that relevant - if a person chooses to take their own life at least it was their choice. I do not condone suicide - but to say that in the same context of someone going out ant taking other peoples lives is wrong - did any of these people who have been victims of shootings choose to be there, choose to have their lives cut short... they had NO CHOICE. No one has the right to take a life.... in any circumstances.
At no point did I say it was okay to kill someone. All I was saying there was that while Zacs claim that gun deaths had gone down in Austrailia was true, overall homicides are the same. Meaning that it's disingenuous to say that the gun ban worked if you're judging it by how many people are getting murdered. It only worked to stop people from getting murdered by guns specifically.
no one asked for my opinion but I’m giving it anyways...we as a nation brought these mass school shootings upon ourselves when we legalized abortion. we made it legal to murder unborn babies so God is saying “alright fine, if this is what you want then I’ll release my blanket of protection over your birthed children.” we reap what we sow & by murdering God’s unborn children, he’s allowing the deranged to murder our kids who’re walking this earth. If we want to fix the issue how about we forget guns and go straight to the root of the issue, that being how we’ve become a Godless nation. Bring prayer back into school, ban abortions, start living for God again and maybe this will all end. You’d come to find out it’s amazing what God can do if you trust Him and put Him first. Regardless I think it’s safe to say we can all agree it’s an awful thing to have to witness, let alone experience. As always, my prayers go out to not only those impacted but also to everyone in this nation. May God Bless us all.
guns were banned in Australia in 1996, following the Port Arthur Massacre, not sure where you're getting the 2008-2009 idea from. But America, the problem is a lot larger than it is in Australia. Americans love guns, and their attitudes to guns needs to be changed through education.
The second amendment was intended for citizens to be able to own a gun, but the rifles that were there at the time are not the same guns people have and argue about today.
You essentially had a single shot rifle that took a few minutes to reload and such. The dangers with the guns then are nowhere near what they could be now, with even pistols today being considered fully automatics to the guns they had back in the 1770’s.
This thread is a fascinating read. I'm not sure why people are arguing against the eighteen school shootings statistic...just one tragedy should be enough to question these lax laws you have.
turney1805 the guns being allowed for militias was to ensure that rebellion was possible in the event a government is unruly, much like it was for the revolutionaries who rebelled against the British monarchy. That’s the same reasoning used now.
in new zealand you need a gun licence which is like a rigorous processing and you need references of two people who can say that you're responsible enough for the gun and who lotta shit that i can't be bothered going into. there hasn't been a school shooting at all in new zealand, and if there is, i haven't heard about it
Personally I think banning all guns is the answer, it clearly works in other countries. However, if they can't do that - then yeah you're right. Civilians simply don't need those type of guns.
I'm arguing against that statistic because its a false statistic. You're right that just one school shooting is all that should be enough to make people realize how bad of a problem we have, but that doesn't mean we should go around spreading false "facts". Spreading bad statistics is just gonna make the discussion more toxic and less likely to get anything done.
KrisStory We live in the country with the most well equipped and powerful military. Do you really think us civilians would win against our government if it became unruly? Just truly think about that then get back to me
Cus if that is your best argument, I will be cackling all day.
If our government ever became unruly, our best hope would be for the military to side with us not the government otherwise we screwed, buddy. Just the truth.
I've done an extensive google search. The 18 school shootings include things such as incidents where it's unclear if the gun was actually fired on school grounds. Incidents in which it was a miss fire. And in almost all of them no one was actually shot or hurt. If you don't want to do your own research then at least watch the video I linked above. Spreading that statistic is just encouraging people to continue using misleading information which gets side A all riled up against side B. Then side B realizes that the statistics are bad and gets all riled up about how side A is using bad statistics and gets all defensive and refuses to listen to any suggestions of gun control and then nothing continues to happen and more and more shootings keep happening. We're never gonna get anywhere if bad arguments keep getting used from both sides.
turney1805, but that’s an argument for a militia. Militia in themselves are outdated and not even used. As you know, our militias became the national guard. I’m not saying it’d be possible to win as citizens, but I’m saying that that’s the logic behind militias. I think there should be more strict gun control, so I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m only saying that that’s the logic behind the 2nd amendment, regardless of how outdated it is. This isn’t an argument of mine for gun rights, as i agree that gun control is pathetic here.
But an interesting question is, what would countries with guns outright banned for citizens do if they wanted to rebel? Obviously not all other countries have the clause in their constitution that includes the right to rebel if the government is unruly, but it’s still an interesting concept to consider. There’d be no way to oust an extremely unruly government unless it was democratically.
